THE TWILIGHT ZONE

Sil, you really have a problem...


OK, from their site:











http://www.biggayicecreamtruck.com/press/

I wonder what dicks you have seen in your life, LOL !!







http://www.biggayicecreamtruck.com/goodies/

_________________
Zoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! That was quick, do I get another? Sorry, Mate. Back to the world of dreams. Yes, dear? ...

For kids ages 7-12 comes the message of gay tolerance. I'm sure that's all the meaning behind the name of the business and its stated purpose on its websiteTry the "Salty Pimp" cone kids. Once you go chocolate, you never go back..
New page so ...


HM, First of all, nobody tries to be anything in sorcery. They are tricked by the spirit itself using intermediares called naguals and their warrior cohorts who themselves were tricked and so on. The statements made in TASOI about the flyers preying on the minds of people are universal. They apply to everyone. Warriors struggle the same way as naguals. The only difference between a nagual and a warrior is that a nagual has a double energetic conformation that predisposes them in theory to be better leaders. But then again we remember that Silvio Manuel was actually putting don Juan up to things, using him as a front while it was Silvio calling the shots. These layers go deep and it would pay to study them well...before definitively hanging your hat on what makes a nagual a nagual and what makes a warrior a warrior. The rule is a map, not concrete. Remember?

The flyers can and will infect any mind, no matter how advanced it thinks it is in the path of knowledge.


The nagual is not some special being that is above a warrior. How odd of you to think that? Everything is the struggle of a warrior in sorcery. Naguals in fact may be a clever way of roping in neophytes and nothing more. Remember the true leader of the group may have been the simple warrior Florinda or Silvio Manuel. Silvio Manuel was actually fingered as "putting don Juan up to dealing with Carlos". A "special leader" hardly takes orders from an underling, wouldn't you say?...lol..

Read the account of how Florinda was inducted. Read about the kind old man and the curendera who officiated as the interface with Florinda for the term of her induction process.

Put two and two together HM.

You are evading the point: you are the only one here seeing what no one else is seeing.

Don't give us that bullcrap from the don Juan and CC bible, ok?.

I have watched all these fucking cones, and to me they are just ice cream cones.

You really do have a problem with SEXXXXX.

Acknowledge it, and maybe it will set you free.

_________________
Zoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! That was quick, do I get another? Sorry, Mate. Back to the world of dreams. Yes, dear? ...

I agree here.
I think one of the main problems of our culture is having all the laws without which basically nothing can be done (in the official world). Then something that is not clearly defined, which is a lot of things if one were to search, can be seen as excluded from it or having ambiguous positions (and thus it fights to make its position unambiguous). In reality, nobody is discriminating against the homosexuals. They can lead their lives as anyone else, and have been doing so for centuries (though I guess they could not be as open about it as they can be now). Ok, they usually can't marry and have kids. But then, they can't have kids anyway (because of natural reasons not laws), since they are homosexuals. Registered partnership is I think lawfully the same thing as marriage, isn't it? They can have their own unofficial ceremony if it is the ceremony they are missing. I am close to a homosexual and I don't see any discrimination going on. Also he never complained of being discriminated. Of course he doesn't like it if people have an ignorant opinion of homosexuals (like Catholic priests for example, but they are ignorant on many issues ), but then I don't like it when people have ignorant opinions on certain issues either, like shamanism. Not that I would want to do a shamanic parade and want shamans to have the same status as whatever, priests, leaders of the communities, why not give shamans political immunity? lol (just using this for the sake comparison, of course I know this is stupid and not the same thing, but actually so should they). If I were to go round announcing I am a shamanic practitioner and wanting shamanism to become mainstream and maybe be taught in schools, I might be regarded as more crazy than a homosexual (who wants to change sexual education in schools etc) . And there might actually be more shamanic practitioners (or people who believe in the shamanic world view) in this world than gays..
The sensible homosexuals don't need gay/pride parades, they just want to lead normal lives. If they want a kid I'm sure they can get one with their own means (might be difficult, especially for males, but not impossible). It is almost impossible for a single person to adopt a kid. First we should change this, if they argue that it's better to be adopted by homosexuals than live in an orphanage (then lets first say it's better to be adopted by single mothers and fathers, many kids live in single parents households anyway). Of course the laws are different in each country, so sometimes it is difficult to talk generally.

A couple of days ago I saw T-Shirts saying something like I love to be black, or I love being black, or something of that sort. If it were I love being white it would be totally considered racist. In a similar spirit Gay - Hetero. There can be Gay Ice cream. But Hetero Ice cream would be homophobic for sure..

So, to come back to what Henry was saying..
These are not the sort of issues that people would get excluded from society for. They can work, live, shop, participate in politics, education, military, police, they can be doctors, lawyers, writers, actors, farmers, businessmen, psychologists even (! and again ! - it is still not ruled out that homosexuality is a deviation and that these people are actually ill, a ! to the education as well then and military and police and politics haha that took me quite far. here we can see how lax and tolerant and acceptable of homosexuals the society really is. And yet they complain. Not to say that even if they were ill they could not be teachers or policemen etc, but generally in these professions mental health is important).. they can chose to be active wherever and do whatever.. I don't know about anything where they could be excluded (apart from extreme right associations, which no normal person would want to be part of anyway). But then I surely haven't thought of everything in this short time that I am writing this.. maybe there really is something.. And also I am writing it in a simplified manner..
Of course it would be nice if more people accepted them as they are, but this is a general issue not only particular to homosexuals. It is sad if a homosexual is not open about who he is to his family for good reasons or bad.. But this does not exclude them from society. It excludes them from being accepted by certain people, that's all.

The natives don't have official laws for everything like we do (correct me if I'm wrong, I do live in Europe and have generally not been around many American natives), which makes their life much simpler..
And then, do the native homosexuals adopt native children? Do they have native marriage ceremonies? We should make it clear what exclusion from society really means, hm?
Are black people excluded from society because of racists? There will always be people who won't like you, for good reasons or for bad. This is not exclusion from society. Just cause there are people intolerant to homosexuals does not mean they are excluded from society. And anyway they can/could blend in pretty well if they want to, not like black people..

The problem is the obsession of the homos that they want to be equal. Do they see themselves as unequal? I don't see them unequally even when it is possible that they are ill. And most people are tolerant and let them live as they want, if it does not go into their own circle of living in a bad way. And if it does, it is just normal that they don't like it, not homophobic.
People who don't like sex parades may dislike it not because it is organized by gays and gay lovers, but because it is exhibitionistic, very loud (all the grandpas and grandmas), often even partially or totally nude, on the city streets. Nudity is not allowed in towns but nude gays are.. isn't something wrong here? Do the native homos have a nude shouting day in the middle of the tepees/huts/reservations/whatever?

ETC

Let me also add that not only is one of the closest people to me a gay I also regularly meet a couple of other gays to do various things together. They never complained about discrimination. They do not have the need to advertise their gayness. We generally don't touch upon gay topics while together, but it is not a taboo either. I sometimes ask what someone thinks about this and that.. When I say that gay people may be ill I mean it though. All of us have issues. I myself had issues I had to work through. There is almost no one mentally healthy (no spotlessly mentally healthy teenager/adult by default) in this world. We all go through shocks, or whatever, have had strange family situations, upbringing, blabla (plus many gays come from strange family backgrounds, where there even was sexual or other abuse).. People on a CC site, doing stalking and recapitulation, should understand this better than the average person out there.
Saying that homosexuals may have issues which could have made them homosexual (has never been disproved) does not mean a person is homophobic. People should really get real.
It is natural to be careful especially if children are involved.. again, it is not homophobic..

I agree with Sil on the issues of normalcy.
Gays most want the only thing that is not given them (not by the official society mind you but) by private thinking (in their own homes and private lives) of normal conservative hetero people - that is they want to be considered normal. But for that there are too many unknowns. They should be content with them achieving so much while there are so many unknowns (cause that should not have happened with the unknowns being unknown). Once again our society is just rolling forward while forgetting about checkups (my grandma sometimes reminiscences about how X-ray machines first started to be used, how happy the doctors were, and how those doctors all died round the age of 40.. she was a nurse).
I also want to add that in order to be fair if we want to consider gays ill, we should also consider a lot of heteros ill as well. The problem here is that gays stick out while the heteros are hidden among other heteros. .
I think that the Gay ice cream is a great marketing move. As everyone who would go against it would be labeled as homophobic and officially nothing bad could be said about it cause of political correctness. But the idea itself is strange. Why sell gay ice cream? Ice cream is just ice cream. Why connect it to being gay? Will we have gay chips, gay coke, gay candy next? Sheesh.. If it were to be a brand/label it might become popular, at least among gays (but not only. an echo of the white kids/people who actually act as if they were black..) . The right extremist also have their favorite brand of clothes etc. It's a wonder the gays have not yet done it so overtly before. Cause even blacks have their T-Shirts now..
In the spirit of gay ice cream, chips, coke, candy.. not to forget the nudeness present during parades. I would say it is the gays themselves that are making things strange for people, which might be leading to people finding them weird. They feel so repressed that (because of that or maybe just cause that is how they function) they are overdoing it and might thus be making matters worse than they would actually be.
Some of the gay ice cream photos where people are shown seem to be kind of pleasant.. I don't see much being wrong there. And they ice cream guy seems alright. I don't like the expression of the black girl on Sil's picture though, its overdone.
Salty Pimp is a strange name for an ice cream. Does a pimp have any connection to homosexuality?

_________________
don't stop
because you have not found your answer
and as you look into the eyes of the unknown
don't forget the intent you have come with

Once again Sil, all these things you are talking about apply to a very very narrow fringe group of people in English speaking countries of people dedicated to Castaneda style nagualisim, a nagualisim which I might add differs with the real native nagualisim which I have found here, which is not puritanical on this sex issue like Carlos was, and that being only in his last decades when the old fart's peter just couldn't deliver anymore.

What you are talking about however is a political issue, dealing with the general population. That guy with the ice cream business is not a Castaneda style Nagual, or warrior, I would guess. You are very mistaken to apply a morality as dictated by Castaneda for warriors or whatever to the public in general. You are mistaken in fact in the worst way.

What I have been trying to tell you to make the comparision, all this talk about homophobia, and gay pride, and gay rights, and moral purpose against gays, is a United States cultural phenomonon, a reaction of the people to their own worn out myths that lie at the very foundation of the culture, but which are very flawed. Native people don't need these laws. If they are gay, then they are gay and do whatever they do with their boyfriends, and with everyone else they act like any one does with everyone else. There are no gay pride festivals necessary. They sit at the table with the rest of the family, that is not gay, to eat. Adoption does not seem to be much of an issue around here, because the whole community itself functions more like a nuclear family does in the US. People are that much more open and close. For most gay mexicans I think that their families and neighbors kids will be as much around, and as almost as much as their responsiblities once in a while, as their hypothetical own kids would be. There is not the obsession therefore on "owning" kids, like people have in the US. If any of this is an illness, and I firmly believe that it is not, then it is really an illness of the United States culture, on all sides of the issue, in as much as an issue is being made of it. Here it is more of a non-issue, perhaps the focus of a few friendly brotherly jokes and ribbing and no more.

In fact most people from the US do not understand the half of what being macho in Mexico is all about. It is in fact almost like being gay. Men stand much closer to eachother, have longer eye contact, more intimate and caring conversations, and hug eachother in affectionate ways. The only thing just about is that there is no touching of the penis. The cultural shock is really not so much here, when being macho really is so much closer to being gay anyhow.


Sil I will state once more, that if you are really serious about this being an impersonal act of the spirit, then you should really hunt this guy down and murder him. If it does not rise to this level, then you should turn your back on it. You are not handling this in any way like a real warrior, like a Mejika would. That is how we live here. I don't think that there is ANYONE in Tenancingo who would hate this guy enough to literally go hunt him down and murder him. That being the case, then the other defalt cultural rule applies, which is to let him do whatever he will do, in liberty. This is the TRUE definition of liberty, and is a far cry of what the puritans want to call liberty in the US. If there were someone here who was incensed enough to hunt this guy down and murder him (or murder any person for that matter), then that person would be the exception to the norm here, and not represent the general population. He would be a person who's parents did not live like 99% of the Mexicans really live, and would have thought that masturbation was a sin. Most Mexicans keep the doctrine of religion, and their real personal values very seperate, thank God, and thanks also to the Roman and Mejika traditions, which over-ride the Catholic part (in a subconscious way for the most part, but I could substantiate it).

Mexicans practice true liberty more than those in the US, while keeping just about everyone still withing the family and community fold, but that does not lead to much ugly stuff either, because Mexicans are not nearly so perverted as you U.S. people are, and that is because family and community values still come before governmental mandates, and because the priesthood here is just that, that the average common citizens are not expected to live by, like they are in your puritan culture.

You must also understand how myth is emerging in a newly modern world. The myth of written history is that the heterosexual monogomous male was the norm, that is to say was normal, and all other was not normal. That was a myth. The reality is that for the average male of any culture, and I am not talking "warriors" or anything like that, just average people, that if he is looking to a single female for sex, that the one female will not be able to provide "enough" sex. Later a myth about the evils of masterbation slips in from the priesthood. If the average man does not get enough sex from the one woman, and is not allowed to masturbate, then he will do what males have done since time immemorial, screw other women on the side. Now in modern times men cannot play that angle so easily. If they hold on the the anti-masterbation myth instilled in them from their parents and priests, then they become backed into a corner with contraditions, and become hostile and violent. At least the Mexican takes into account the hypocracy of the Catholic docrine (the Roman and the Mejika traditions do this adjustment), and the male can still masterbate, or cheat on his wife, or be gay, or whatever other thing will get him enough sex, but I don't think that a Mexican would be as prone to violate a child as in the U.S., because children are shared within society, and that prevents that obsession from developing from early on.

The majority of problems, crime and violence in the world is caused by men; mostly caused by men who are sexually repressed. Men need to behave in more feminine ways to return balance to the culture of the world, which has been damaged by the myths of North American puritinisim.

Sorry for making it so long , but read it well because it is important stuff for you to understand.

sexual repression, and repression in general does not solve anything. It just makes a bigger problem, later on...
I like how you say that the balance needs to be returned. That men need to behave in more feminine ways.
Also in our Slavic culture it is (or was) common for men to hug and kiss each other (on the cheek). But slowly that is being driven away by customs coming from the west.. Noways I almost do not see this (though I am sure the more east I would go the more I would see it), especially in younger adults and teenagers. There was nothing wrong with it, but it had to go.. kind of sad..

_________________
don't stop
because you have not found your answer
and as you look into the eyes of the unknown
don't forget the intent you have come with

No, actually this is not the only website I've run this across and scores of people see exactly what I'm seeing in selling kids a product openly linked to sexuality. In fact many of them are hostile about the idea where I'm trying to probe it from an energetic standpoint here. Let me guess, they're all closet homosexuals right?...no, no wait, they're "homophobes"...or no, no, they're "haters".

Like I quoted: the flyers' infested minds will ridicule or beat the crap out of anyone who succeeds in creating a resonance deep inside the layers of the foriegn mind. They have to. There is too much at stake and I'm seeing it here in this thread in spades.

Let me return to something HM said earlier:
So yes, I'm not the only one feeling a discordant resonance about the idea of selling "gay ice cream" to children. HM, did you visit the link where the owner says his target group is between the ages of 7-12? Just exactly, coincidentally or perhaps not, the age group of pre-puberity, the most impressionable and malleable age of sexual identity formation?

This issue isn't about homosexuality. It's about perverse sexuality. It's about how once something as powerful as sex is to humans is taken out of its original purpose [to procreate children] and allowed to be contorted and twisted around into, literally, orgasm-seeking for its sake only, and then attaching the stamp of "love" to that behavior, and then even further to attach the stamp of "married" to it, is the usher to what we see in the picture. It is the slippery slope that the flyers bank on to pin us down and keep us morbid, affected, heavy and rendered, as the book said, to mere meat. It takes away the magical aspect of sexuality and turns it into something akin to eating or taking a shit.

As I said before from another post:

I agree with ZZZ that sex can lead to a lightening of the spirit when it is involved with the natural outfall of what sex exists for [creating new life].

The worst thing that the business owner doesn't realize is that in trying to create a business that ostensibly ropes in sympathy for homosexuals as benign to a society, he has affected the opposite [I can assure you in the overwhelming majority of people I've shown the picture to] The idea agitates people at a visceral level and even those with an dangerously high threshold to nonsense have a visceral reaction to it. Many then bury that reaction and go on to defend it but like HM they at some point admit that the busniess this man is up to actually looks like a pedophile. The fact that he pours the cones to look as closely phallic as he can [consciously or subconsciously] and then goes on to say his target group is kids between the ages of 7-12 [ I know plenty of toddlers and preschoolers who simply LOVE ice cream] and the fact that he has a cone called "the Salty Pimp"... That is chocolate-covered, indicates sexualized products for the kiddies as well as a racial slur..

I mean are you feeling it yet? Can you feel it, that agitation in the pit of your stomach? Be honest like HM was. At least I give you that HM..

We are talking about the Big Gay Ice Cream site.

I read a lot from that site, I quoted from that site, I posted many ice cones from that site, what more do you want?

I am not defending perverts or anything, but I don't get the impression from that site that we are dealing with perverts. I didn't see pics of some guy with a young kid hiding in the bushes, offering the kid a 'phallic' looking ice cream while opening his own zipper..

I read that parents first looked a bit puzzled when they first went to those people to buy ice cream, but soon they found out it was ok. In other words: they realized that they had just been prejudiced, and nothing more.

_________________
Zoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! That was quick, do I get another? Sorry, Mate. Back to the world of dreams. Yes, dear? ...

I've been honest and I will continue to be honest.

I had practically no reaction to the picture that disturbs you so much.
It was more like "Yeah, yeah, promotion, advertising, big deal..."

The ice cream cones pictured
are no more phallic than anybody else's ice cream cones.

You are being completely dishonest when you say they are.

There is nothing wrong with gays selling ice cream to kids.
You are being completely homophobic if you think there is.

There are no more pedophiles among gays than straights.
You are incorrect if you say that there are.

Marriage between gays or lesbians will not destroy society.
That's an idiotic fantasy of yours.

You are heavy, morbid, prejudiced and unbalanced on this topic.

But worst of all, you are wasting lots of energy on it.

People that are obsessed with sex – whether homosexual or heterosexual (and not young adults or teenagers – they’re supposed to be obsessed with sex) – should be kept away from impressionable children (and adults) and not allowed to sell ice cream. People that try to convert ordinary people into naguals are disruptive and a threat to normal god-fearing society. They should all be persecuted by righteous people. This is a sarcastic rant for anybody that isn't able to figure that out.

Exactly Z,

The displayed name of the business does have an overt sexual angle. I don't really get involved in political matters, but if I did then his presentation would only be appropriate in special areas, where there is a heavy gay/adult concentration. But I am the last person to want to play judge in such matters.

However I object to Sil's attempt to tie her nagualistic personal views to society, in a flawed manner. (I also apply nagualistic views to society, but I don't obsess on illusions of changing or alienating people or groups of people.)

Both sides of the coin are equally out of whack.

HM, I'm quoting from the books directly. Don Juan said "fellow men". Don Juan makes it clear that all people are capable of attaining the attributes of warriorship but that very few of them ever get the cubic centemeter of chance to embark on that journey. Do you remember reading about "warriors" and "warriors battle..." etc. etc. etc.?? Naguals are simply warriors who are frontmen. You disagree with don Juan's interpretation of sorcery, fine. That is the only sorcery I know or care to know. It appeals to me because of the New Seers rejection of aberrations that require heavy classifications. The warriors of the nagual's party are supposed to be in debt to him/her and to be irreverent to him/her at the same time. It keeps them light. This helps the warriors and the nagual on their path to freedom.

Remember the nagual Julian who referred to his teacher Elias as "the nagual tonnage" for his portly size and his propensity for "dispensing wisdom by the ton"?..lol. Or the scores of accounts of don Juan and his cohorts recalling their teacher the nagual Julian with gales of laughter and don Juan calling him short of the mark of a polished man of knowledge in The Power Of Silence? By including these irreverent comments, Castaneda was imparting the abstract core that naguals are well served by keeping humble and that their neophytes are well served by not worshipping their teachers..

ZZZ are you trying to copy zippy the pinhead?

You are funny sometimes.. but yeah, Zippy does serve to loosen the layers of the flyers quite a bit.


Shawn, "practically no reaction"? Good. At least there is something there. You are gay if memory serves? So I would expect "practically no reaction"

But everyone has a reaction to it. Whether or not they can feel that reaction is something else. I had a visceral and immediate reaction to it and that was before I visited the guy's website. After reading his spiel about kids ages 7-12 I had another visceral reaction. All the pictures on his site show only adults getting his products. I wondered why he didn't show any kids? But then he goes on in the bio to talk about that particular age group of kids he targets. Then I wondered why just that age group? Like I said, I know plenty of toddlers and preschoolers who simply love ice cream.

A. He targets kids 7-12
B. He only shows adults getting his products
C. He leaves out the most photogenic ages for ice-cream promotion of all, the tiny kids with a cone.

Does he know that showing kids licking a phallic shaped object standing next to a sign that says "Big Gay Ice Cream" might land him in trouble with authorities? And WHY does he know that? Why leave out the younger kids specifically? Why not just say "I target kids to teach the anti-homophobe message to"? If that's his true mission, no age is too young to begin learning tolerance and interestingly enough the ages of 0-6 are what psychologists call "the formative years" for the personality. Ages 7-12 are the formative years for sexuality, AKA prepubescence.

And all that information only serves to agitate the layers even more.

What is significant is not just this one creepy guy and his overt pedophilia. It's the scores of people who support his business who have "practically no reaction" to it. There's the crux of the issue right there... It is the smooth and nearly seamless shoehorn of the flyers inserting another "normalcy" into the human condition..

When are you all going to learn?
Arguing with Ssil when her mind is made up is a complete waste of time..

_________________
Art for the Masses

And this is part of what I quoted earlier from that site:

_________________
Zoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! That was quick, do I get another? Sorry, Mate. Back to the world of dreams. Yes, dear? ...

No Sil, I'm not gay,
I'm simply not a homophobe like you.

TWO THINGS THAT SIL IS LYING ABOUT :

1. The ice cream cones are no more phallic-shaped than anyone else's ice cream cones.
Sil is lying when she says they are.

2. There is no "overt pedophilia" displayed at all.
Selling ice cream to kids is not pedophilia.
Sil is lying to herself and to anyone who reads her propaganda.